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Reworking jets to allow more variety.
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Description

As of right now, the Shikra is the best DLC-Jet in KotH. Best cannon damage combined with high ammo count, aswell as highest speed, turning radius, acceleration, climb rate and, last but not least, the highest AA count of all jets.

In other words, if you want to kill all jets reliably, you have to buy a shikra, otherwise you cannot gain control over a fight.

This should change, along with the loadouts of the other jets, right now the only used jets are the Shikra for its good stats, the Neo for its tankiness and its cannon and the A-10, which is mostly used for the ATGMs.

All other jets are too lackluster in order to be even remotely viable.

I'd like to make a few suggestions with this post.

Shikra:

  • Lower AA count to 2 missiles. There is no reason that the most agile jet should also get the highest AA payload.
  • Lower the ammo count of the cannon to a maximum of 200. There is no reason why this jet should have as much ammo as the Gryphon. It shoots 30mm which seems to do way more damage than the 20mms of the 2 other DLC jets.

Wasp:

  • Higher ammo count on main cannon, maybe ~1200 rounds. In my opninion this seems to be needed in order to be able to shoot any old jet, since they seem to take insane amounts of hits before blowing up.
  • Lower the price to 10.000$. It seems like it's rarely bought, maybe that is due to the high price tag.

Gryphon:

  • Higher ammo count on main cannon to ~1000. Same reasoning as for the Wasp. Low damage per shot. It seems as if a lot of bullets would riccochet off the jet if shooting at angles from like 1-25°.

Buzzard:

This jet seems to have a little something of everything, yet it exceeds at nothing.
I would personally suggest it gets a more CAS/AT oriented loadout, featuring AP Shriekers on pylons 3 & 5, GBUs on pylons 1 & 2. Pylon 4 could carry 1 Scalpel (not the 3x pod, a single one) or, which might be more interesting, a pod of DAGRs, while pylon 6 could get carry a pod DARs or an AA missle.
Pylon config taken from : https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/armedassault/images/6/65/Arma3-Buzzard-Loadout.png/revision/latest?cb=20170715090012

I would put the AP Shriekers on one wing so that the pilot does not constantly need to constantly steer left-right when shooting them, since they should be used precisely, not as spam weapons.

Price might need to be lifted if this new loadout would prove too effective.

Wipeout:

Loadout could stay the same. I'd reduce the price a bit though, as this jets is basically defenseless against other jets, since it handles so slug-ish. It's slow, has basically no acceleration; it basically relies on base AA or other jets to stay alive, otherwise it is pretty much dead.

Neo:

As with the Wipeout, the loadout is fine. Price can as far as I am concerned stay where it is.

Event Timeline

Grossaaa_ created this object in space S1 Public.
Sa-Matra claimed this task.Nov 10 2018, 8:57 PM
the_kole added a subscriber: the_kole.EditedNov 14 2018, 5:17 PM

My suggestions would be:

Shikra: Loadout seems fine, although removing aa missiles is definitly something to look at MRAA missiles (dont replace with SRAA as these are plain op) cause way too many issues to be in KOTH in my opinion. The sometime just dissapear off the radar and still hit, they can pull all of a jets/helicopters flares if running CMSR and can relock, either to teammates or enemies causing the missile to always hit in my experience unless they run out of energy before that (for example because of trying to follow a shikra going 1500 for a long time). Same goes for the MRAA on both the Wasp and the gryphon.

Gryphon: The gryphon is currently underpowered. IMO it needs to get more cannon ammo (sometheing between 750 and 1000) since (unless you shoot out the pilot) 500 rounds is just enough to reliably kill a neo. I also believe there should be at least 2gbus as clusters are pretty useless and only fuck over poor infantrymen fighting in the zone anyways.

Wasp: Ammo could use a bump maybe, not really a jet worth playing IMO anyways so i dont have a lot of experience with it

Neo/Wipeout: These seem fine as they are, lets just hope bohemia fixes the stupid swaying some time.

Buzzard: Very useless atm, i dont think adding any guided munitons to this is a good idea. Maybe have this be a dedicated CAS jet with 4x Cluster and instead of HE/AP shriekers put on only HE (DAR/Shrieker/Skyfire)?

Jet gameplay is just plain boring right now. You have to buy a shikra in order to be able to do something against a possible enemy shikra. It is the fastest and most agile jet of the bunch, which makes it really boring to fly. Also, if you get behind a shikra in a wasp or a gryphon, the shikra is going to be at 800-900 km/h in a couple of seconds, whereas any other jets get to maybe 600km/h in the same time.

And even if you have a shikra, shikra vs. shikra "dogfights" are usually just on following the other at 1510ish km/h.

I get that it can be boring to fight a shikra that prefers running instead of fighting, but reducing the amount of cannon ammo will surely not fix your problem.

sh4rP-.- added a subscriber: sh4rP-.-.EditedNov 14 2018, 7:29 PM

Add border, e.g like in battlefield, when you go into the "dark" area, you get like 5seconds to come back, or you die(gets rid off quote("And even if you have a shikra, shikra vs. shikra "dogfights" are usually just on following the other at 1510ish km/h."). If people really got a problem with shikra AA(don't know where is the issue, they do shit damage), well, swapping them out for some tratnyr FFAR is a good option. Buzzard should stay where it is, people already spam it, i noticed it. More about the AA, i don't think it's hard to position yourself side on the jet you're fighting against, and not fly headon, so flare script comes in. quote("Loadout could stay the same. I'd reduce the price a bit though, as this jets is basically defenseless against other jets, since it handles so slug-ish. It's slow, has basically no acceleration; it basically relies on base AA or other jets to stay alive, otherwise it is pretty much dead."), hell no, reducing price is not a good move. People usually play wipeout really safe, and bait to tigrises when possible, which makes them pretty much untouchable at that point(described). The whole baiting thing has became way more active than before. Possible loadout for shikra:

400x GSH
40x HE tratnyr
1x KAB-250

Grossaaa_ added a comment.EditedNov 14 2018, 7:51 PM

@sh4rP-.- I really dislike the idea of the shikra getting the best loadout of all jets. IMO it's agility needs to be countered by a loadout that doesn't allow you to go through 10 jets before needing to rearm.

Yes, the cannon needs skill, but the issue is with 600 rounds of 30mm even bad pilots will hit you eventually.

Buzzards are only seen so often because of it being the first jet that unlocks. Every noob thats killed by jets usually think that if it's in the jet category it must be good - which the buzzard is far away from.

@potato28 Yes, ammo nerfs don't fix the running problem (neither does giving them more) but it solves the issue of the most agile jet also being the one with the highest total damage from cannon.

sh4rP-.- added a comment.EditedNov 14 2018, 9:03 PM

If you nerf loadout of the shikra it becomes useless. Every jet does. The reason wasp doesn't get played that often is because of shikra, guess what would happen if you nerfed shikra/removed it. You talk about giving wasp total of 1200 rounds, do you want to make a wipeout out of that thing? And I've seen level 80s already spamming them(buzzards). Shikra cannon is completely useless on fast moving targets, e.g another shikra going 800kmh. It does it's best when you manage to stall fight someone(which rarely happens these days, everyone just runs, HENCE why i'm asking for the border)

Nerfing the shikra loadoutwise won't change anything regarding it's agility. The shikra outruns, -accelerates and -turns every Jet, it has to have another downside. If it gets your loadout, the 40 tratnyr can allow you to shoot down 20 jets, plus you still have 400 rounds of "i fuck your engine in one shot and controls in 2" 30mm.

400 rounds suck if you never commit to a stallfight with shikra. Show me a clip of someone killing 20 jets with 40 tratnyrs, you know sometimes they don't die from 2taps?

Everything I have hit with shriekers of the gryphon either crashed within 60 seconds or was basically dead (as in no engines/controls).

Even if you're a bad shot, 40 tratnyrs mean that you have 20 chances to oneshot disable or kill any aircraft. Combined with the shikra's agility, this seems too much for me.

  1. They need to remove AAs on Shikra that's a must. Give it rounds 600 30mm cannon and give some dumb missiles AP and/or HE.
  2. idea Black Wasp is to give it 4 AAs because it has the worst turning compared to Griffin and Shikra need to be balanced out because it sucks for dogfighting. That is the purpose of the black wasp in vanilla to have better missiles pylons that it's the strong point.